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  #21  
Old 04-27-2011, 09:48 AM
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kamsisodia kamsisodia is offline
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Sounds like a plan's coming together! I'm looking into LG, though I do love breakfast so it'd have to be the end of the day that I fast. Think I'm gonna hit ESE once per week too but still confused about this deficit, should we be in deficit if we're trying to build? Advice from Craig seemed to suggest otherwise.

Good luck with the booze, my issue is the smokes. Which I'm going to try and cut in TC11, gave up the booze 3 years ago. Nicotine is harder!

Going to start my post when I'm at a computer over the next few days. All the best man.
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  #22  
Old 04-27-2011, 11:12 AM
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DutchLaramie DutchLaramie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamsisodia View Post
Sounds like a plan's coming together! I'm looking into LG, though I do love breakfast so it'd have to be the end of the day that I fast. Think I'm gonna hit ESE once per week too but still confused about this deficit, should we be in deficit if we're trying to build? Advice from Craig seemed to suggest otherwise.

Good luck with the booze, my issue is the smokes. Which I'm going to try and cut in TC11, gave up the booze 3 years ago. Nicotine is harder!

Going to start my post when I'm at a computer over the next few days. All the best man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamsisodia View Post
Sounds like a plan's coming together! I'm looking into LG, though I do love breakfast so it'd have to be the end of the day that I fast. Think I'm gonna hit ESE once per week too but still confused about this deficit, should we be in deficit if we're trying to build? Advice from Craig seemed to suggest otherwise.

Good luck with the booze, my issue is the smokes. Which I'm going to try and cut in TC11, gave up the booze 3 years ago. Nicotine is harder!

Going to start my post when I'm at a computer over the next few days. All the best man.
If you download the LG protocol PDF, you'll see that he has a few options for fast timing. He also stresses that you should do what comfortably fits your lifestyle. Not a bad thing!

As far as deficit... well, hell I don't know what to say. It really is a crapshoot which is why I think Craig tends to avoid the topic. You could look up BMR and Maintenance Calories online and get a half dozen different figures. Then activity levels add a whole slew of new figures. Then guys like John Romaniello and Martin Berkhan use a rounded method for figuring out calories... Its a confusing mess.

If I understand ESE right, I think Brad suggests eating at Maintenance everyday with fasting once or twice a week. This would put you in a deficit and still promote both fat loss and muscle building.

If you look at a few of the success stories from the last contest, they all seem to have been in deficit and achieved fat loss and muscle gain. I'm kinda going off of that.

I'm sticking with ESE because I just really enjoy it. I decided to add LG as an experiment to see if it helps or hinders. We'll see in a few weeks. I may end up dropping it. (This also goes back to the calorie problem - he suggests maint +20% on workout days and maint. -20% on off days.) If you workout 3 days a week - you're in deficit.

But, for me, I'm not totally sure what maintenance is. Some formulas say as low as 2000cals; others as high as nearly 2600cals. THat's a huge gap!
So, do I eat 1600/2400 or 2000/3000???

So, in the end, I'm sticking around the 2200 (sounds like you got the same advice) mark give or take. My workout days may have a little more and my off days will probably be less. I'll "cheat" on Saturdays and ESE on Sundays. That's my plan. Let me know if you see errors in my ways.

On the other note - I'm not nutty with alcohol, I'm a snob. I just really enjoy beer and wine - not the drunken part. As far as nicotine, I did it a few times and gave it up totally around this time last year. I've never really been addicted to smoking. I've gone months at a time without even a craving. Lucky me I guess. I can tell you that you'll never truly quit until you finally decide that you don't want it anymore. Good luck with it!

Sorry for the long reply. I do tend to be long winded.
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2011, 11:56 AM
antoheion antoheion is offline
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Originally Posted by DutchLaramie View Post
I don't know... 1600 calories seems pretty low and beans, beans, beans... well, I have nothing appropriate to ay about that! HA! Are you a vegetarian? Or am I misreading this and you did eat meat? Just want to be sure.

I guess I'm kinda doing the carb cycling thing, but not really... I started the LeanGains thing a few weeks ago and the protocol calls for higher carbs on workout days and lower carbs off days. Now, I'm sure Martin's idea of low and high are much different than mine. I don't really eat grains, so low is pretty low - when I can help it. (50-100g) and high is usually around 150g.

I had the most success with Eat-Stop-Eat. I've read quite a few people having great success with Isabella's system. I don't really know enough about Jay's to make a call. They all come down to the same thing; eliminate processed foods, white carbs, and any other junk. Then put yourself in calorie deficit in some way. It just depends on what works best for you.

I did 1800 cals a day and sometimes it was a bit torturous. I can't imagine 1600 cals daily - and I'm shorter than you!

What is Jay's system? Do you have it or were you window shopping?

All the best, Ion.
Hi, Keith
I've had meat almost daily, mostly chicken and fish (only grilled, tried to use the steamer once and it was a disaster :-))), but also pork, let's say once every 4-5 weeks. (don't tell Craig...) After all we have this saying in Romania: the best vegetable is pork.
About the Renegade Diet, it should be on sale on Jay Ferruggia's site- jasonferruggia.com in a couple of days, maybe weeks. He just released the uncorrected version for members. If you purchase one of his programs you get a free one month membership on his site and you can download it.
Have a great day!!
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2011, 01:46 PM
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weetamclan weetamclan is offline
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Originally Posted by antoheion View Post

I was thinking about using Jay Ferruggia's Renegade diet or maybe try some form of carb cycling...
Have a great day,
Ion
I just bought his renegade recipe e-book. Making some recipes next week so I'll report back!
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2011, 05:53 PM
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kamsisodia kamsisodia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchLaramie

If you download the LG protocol PDF, you'll see that he has a few options for fast timing. He also stresses that you should do what comfortably fits your lifestyle. Not a bad thing!

As far as deficit... well, hell I don't know what to say. It really is a crapshoot which is why I think Craig tends to avoid the topic. You could look up BMR and Maintenance Calories online and get a half dozen different figures. Then activity levels add a whole slew of new figures. Then guys like John Romaniello and Martin Berkhan use a rounded method for figuring out calories... Its a confusing mess.

If I understand ESE right, I think Brad suggests eating at Maintenance everyday with fasting once or twice a week. This would put you in a deficit and still promote both fat loss and muscle building.

If you look at a few of the success stories from the last contest, they all seem to have been in deficit and achieved fat loss and muscle gain. I'm kinda going off of that.

I'm sticking with ESE because I just really enjoy it. I decided to add LG as an experiment to see if it helps or hinders. We'll see in a few weeks. I may end up dropping it. (This also goes back to the calorie problem - he suggests maint +20% on workout days and maint. -20% on off days.) If you workout 3 days a week - you're in deficit.

But, for me, I'm not totally sure what maintenance is. Some formulas say as low as 2000cals; others as high as nearly 2600cals. THat's a huge gap!
So, do I eat 1600/2400 or 2000/3000???

So, in the end, I'm sticking around the 2200 (sounds like you got the same advice) mark give or take. My workout days may have a little more and my off days will probably be less. I'll "cheat" on Saturdays and ESE on Sundays. That's my plan. Let me know if you see errors in my ways.

On the other note - I'm not nutty with alcohol, I'm a snob. I just really enjoy beer and wine - not the drunken part. As far as nicotine, I did it a few times and gave it up totally around this time last year. I've never really been addicted to smoking. I've gone months at a time without even a craving. Lucky me I guess. I can tell you that you'll never truly quit until you finally decide that you don't want it anymore. Good luck with it!

Sorry for the long reply. I do tend to be long winded.
I'm gonna look into the LG theory and also trawl through previous contestants to see how people get on with being in deficit and gaining muscle to see if there was anyone in a similar place to us at the start.

For now my plan is to try to maintain around 2200, I think the plus and minus maintenance thing might be too hard but I'll take in some choco milk post workout. Trying to get up to those figures sans grains is also going to be hard. I had some rye bread this morning with my eggs. Generally I love bread and look forward to it on a cheat, but today felt a bit uncomfortable all morning. Increasing the cals isn't as easy as I thought only this time yesterday!

On the alcohol, If its in moderation then as long as you factor in the cals it should be fine. Im gonna try with smokes, I really want to when I feel the effects whilst working out.
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  #26  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:06 AM
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DutchLaramie DutchLaramie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antoheion View Post
Hi, Keith
I've had meat almost daily, mostly chicken and fish (only grilled, tried to use the steamer once and it was a disaster :-))), but also pork, let's say once every 4-5 weeks. (don't tell Craig...) After all we have this saying in Romania: the best vegetable is pork.
About the Renegade Diet, it should be on sale on Jay Ferruggia's site- jasonferruggia.com in a couple of days, maybe weeks. He just released the uncorrected version for members. If you purchase one of his programs you get a free one month membership on his site and you can download it.
Have a great day!!
I've heard of steamed chicken. I know it exists. I don't think I ever want to meet one.

Is Craig anti-pork? I must've missed that. Everything's better with bacon!

I may look into Jay's diet, but I'm pretty keen on the Primal/Paleo thing. I read Mark's Daily Apple pretty much every day. A great resource for info. on foods/nutrients and how your body uses them.
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:07 AM
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DutchLaramie DutchLaramie is offline
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Originally Posted by weetamclan View Post
I just bought his renegade recipe e-book. Making some recipes next week so I'll report back!
Yes. I'd really like to hear about what's in there!
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:13 AM
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DutchLaramie DutchLaramie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamsisodia View Post
I'm gonna look into the LG theory and also trawl through previous contestants to see how people get on with being in deficit and gaining muscle to see if there was anyone in a similar place to us at the start.

For now my plan is to try to maintain around 2200, I think the plus and minus maintenance thing might be too hard but I'll take in some choco milk post workout. Trying to get up to those figures sans grains is also going to be hard. I had some rye bread this morning with my eggs. Generally I love bread and look forward to it on a cheat, but today felt a bit uncomfortable all morning. Increasing the cals isn't as easy as I thought only this time yesterday!

On the alcohol, If its in moderation then as long as you factor in the cals it should be fine. Im gonna try with smokes, I really want to when I feel the effects whilst working out.
I definitely suggest tracking down the PDF. It's a great companion to the info. on Martin's website.

I'm pretty much in the same boat - calorie wise, though I'm messing with the timing a bit. I find I'm not quite as hungry on off days anyway, so it works out. I'm starting to think the best thing to do is eat and then track and see what happens when you eat only when you're hungry. Then you can make adjustments and learn how to keep that up. It's less stressful than adding foods to a log and trying to figure out what component you need to fulfill. (Though, I still track on stress)

Fortunately, livestrong.com has calorie counts for the micro-brews I like, so I can account for them.

Getting you fitness goals AND quitting smoking would really be a stellar accomplishment for TC11. I wish you the best with it.
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  #29  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:25 AM
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JeninAustria JeninAustria is offline
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Please no more nut butter references! I am completely deprived here in Austria, unless you count Skippy, which I do not.

You are so organized with your plan of attack. Enjoy!
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  #30  
Old 04-29-2011, 04:59 AM
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debz0773 debz0773 is offline
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Originally Posted by JeninAustria View Post
Please no more nut butter references! I am completely deprived here in Austria, unless you count Skippy, which I do not.

You are so organized with your plan of attack. Enjoy!
Yep, Skippy nut butter is what you get here in Portugal too..I don't think it would be that difficult to make.. I'm waiting for my Almond trees to fruit then I'll give it go.
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